Ruben’s Weblog

Comparing South Ossetia to Kosovo

August 11, 2008 · 34 Comments

The leader and the puppet

By Ruben Avxhiu

As the conflict between Russia and Georgia escalated this weekend, many international observers have been comparing South Ossetia to Kosovo and the Russian intervention with that of NATO in 1999.

This comparison has been also applauded and inspired by Russian diplomats and officials because it tends to justify their military actions in a neighbor and sovereign country and because it helps portray this recent crisis as a consequence of the Western support for Kosovo’s independence.

The problem with this comparison is that if it is fairly analyzed it will lead to conclusions, which are opposed to the view offered by the Russians and their supporters.

Russia today like NATO in 1999?

It is true that in 1999, NATO too intervened inside a sovereign state (the dissolving rump Yugoslavian Federation). However, this intervention came more than one year after the conflict had erupted. From February 1998 to March 23, 1999, the West gave enough time to the Security Council, the Contact Group, OSCE, individual initiatives from neighbor and other countries, a Roman Catholic organization and other international players to try and resolve the situation peacefully. NATO and Western leaders pleaded with the Serbs to stop their irresponsible behavior in Kosovo promising them that their sovereignty over the province was uncontested and the violence would only radicalize the behavior and the political demands of the Kosovars.

What a difference from the Russian behavior during the recent days. Why wait a year, when they could enter within hours using heavy forces against a country many times smaller than theirs. Of course, no proposals for the Georgians, no warnings, no chance for the diplomacy to solve the situation. To compare this intervention with what NATO did, one has to be either an ignorant of the facts or a sadly biased political analyst. Unfortunately, this is what has taken place in countless of media outlets during this weekend. Few were decent enough to point that such an immediate response from the Russians shows that this had been planned long time before. An analyst even suggested that the Georgians were suckered in.

Of course, the intervention of NATO in 1999 was not approved by a vote in the Security Council, but this important organ of the UN was given several times the chance to be more assertive and efficient on Kosovo, but miserably failed to do so. Russia did no such a thing before aggressively moving inside Georgia ’s sovereign territory.

Unlike, Russia today, NATO was not an interested party in Kosovo’s conflict. Serbia’s neighbors saw the alliance as the guarantor of their security and the domestic Serbian conflict had all the elements necessary to spill wider in the region. Russia has of course proclaimed itself as the guardian of the security in the Caucasian region, but this position is not shared by the others in the region who still remember the face of the old empire in both its monarchic and communist form.

Russia claims that Georgia was the first to use its military in South Ossetia and presents its intervention as a necessary retaliation. However, Moscow does not mention that Georgia’s intervention in South Ossetia was prompted by repeated and continuous attacks by South Ossetia within Georgian territory (analogous to Hamas rocket attacks in Israel). There is one more difference between the Caucasian province and Kosovo: KLA never initiated any aggression toward Serbia proper.

The situation between Kosovo and South Ossetia in 1999 would have been similar only if Albania had intervened militarily with the pretext of helping the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. This did not happen also because the West just like today with Moscow took the position that Tirana could not be an impartial peacekeeping force in the region. Of course, you cannot compare Albania ’s military strength with Russia ’s, but in principle that is the only possible comparison, which makes sense.

A consequence of Kosovo’s independence?

The other connection, which sees the events developing in Georgia as a consequence of the Western accommodation of Kosovo’s independence, is wrong too.

Ironically enough, Russia justified its opposition to the secession of Kosovo from Serbia with the danger that this act could become a precedent for similar situations around the globe. The concern was not without merit and the West appropriately declared that it considered Kosovo a unique case and that efforts to copy the solution elsewhere would be discouraged. Within six months, Russia became the first country to try to use Kosovo as a precedent by openly supporting South Ossetia secession from Georgia. Suddenly, the sovereignty of a nation was not so sacred for Russia.

One would expect that in the light of this military intervention, Russia would change at least its position on Kosovo, by admitting that the international community was right to impose a solution in 1999. However, this is not going to happen, emphasizing the hypocrisy of this giant Petrolstate who, less than two decades after the collapse of the Soviet Empire has reverted to aggression and intimidation of its neighbors.

South Ossetia with its modest size and a population of only 70,000 is, among other things, too small to be compared with Kosovo. You could however compare it with cases like Alto Adige situated between Italy and Germany and even with the northern tip of Kosovo if you wish. An independent South Ossetia is not a viable project and it would be eventually integrated in Russia, which makes Moscow’s military intervention even more unacceptable.

True reasons that weigh much more than the Kosovo effect

Two underlying factors have made Russia intervene in South Ossetia.

First, it has to do with the strategic pipelines that go through this part of Georgia and which are vital to the EU energy independence from Russia. It also explains why the 25-country block found some spine to finally rebuke Russia openly for its irresponsible behavior.

Second, this is Russia’s payback for Georgia’s ambition to join NATO. The small Caucasian country applied for membership but its request was denied in April with EU countries led by Germany fearing that the move would upset Russia. As it usually happens, Putin’s Russia took the favor as a sign of weakness and planned the aggression before Georgia could renew its application in December.

The intervention is an open warning to other countries inside the former Soviet zone of influence, which plan to dare Russia by joining NATO. This could have been more for the Ukrainians than for the Georgians to see. Other former Soviet states, such as the three Baltic countries with their significant Russian minorities are right to be concerned. Can the West really stand up to the Russians? Is it willing to?

In this situation, the mere fact of comparing South Ossetia to Kosovo strongly plays in Russian propaganda hands. It has brought misconceptions that should be clarified or it will confuse even more the public opinion that is still divided on a situation, which should have had no moral ambiguities.

“It all ended for us”, said a Georgian war refugee leaving behind his destroyed home in South Ossetia. For the rest of the world though it is all just beginning, once again.

Categories: Russia
Tagged: , , , , , , , ,

34 responses so far ↓

  • George Carty // August 11, 2008 at 7:43 pm | Reply

    Damn that stinking traitor Gerhard Schroeder, who imposed a nuclear phaseout (thus making Germany dependent on Russian natural gas) in order to get himself a cushy job at Gazprom…

  • ruben2008 // August 11, 2008 at 7:57 pm | Reply

    I wonder whether the new German government conducted a review on his last decisions and an investigation about when his negotiations for the new job began.

    He may have truly betrayed the interests of Germany during the end of his mandate.

    It is a dangerous precedent for leaders all over Europe. They should start thinking about a law to prevent this kind of things.

    I have little respect for him now, although I understand the human nature of his decision. Those Gazprom guys hand out fat checks and you live only once. Honor and integrity may not count much for some, so there you go.

  • Ivan Smith // August 12, 2008 at 7:27 am | Reply

    But in Kosovo noone shot at U.N. troops. NATO states had the luxury of diplomatic means before attacking Belgrade.

    Georgia attacked U.N.-mandated peacekeepers (Russian troops). Russia ALREADY has U.N. mandate to fight back, immediately.

  • ruben2008 // August 12, 2008 at 6:48 pm | Reply

    Ivan,
    That is only one more reason why South Ossetia and Kosovo are two different situations.

    However, as far as I know it is a basic principle of the peacekeeping strategy that the peacekeeper should not be a neighbor who is directly a party in that conflict.

    That is a reason why for example you have peacekeepers from Albania in Lebanon and Chad but not in Kosovo. That is why the peacekeepers in Kosovo are preferred to be from Scandinavia.

    Furthermore, I doubt that they have a UN mandate to fight back immediately, even less to enter Georgian territory beyond the Ossetias. If they do have it, why Ambassador Churkin did not say it in the Security Council. He could have easily said: “Hello! You gave us the right to act and we did.”

    Last but not least, Russia will have some explaining to do. Let’s say Russia is right. Do you think that seeing a big country bombing the shit out of a small neighbor will help Russia’s image in the world? I don’t think so.

  • Mike Nords // August 13, 2008 at 1:16 am | Reply

    Ruben,
    Russia does have a UN mandate in South Ossetia and did the right thing there. Georgia actually conducted a genoside in South Ossetia killing peaceful people and Russian peacemakers. There is no case here for NATO. Our country (US) is just afraid of Russia becoming a superpower again and for that reason spraying us all with this propoganda b.sh..t. Do you homework on the topic first before posting here!

  • ruben2008 // August 13, 2008 at 2:13 am | Reply

    “Our” country is spraying us with propaganda bullshit?! How?

    Unlike in Russia, here the media is private and international. Most of them hate Bush and have a very critical opinion of America’s foreign policy.

    If Mr. Putin doesn’t like a newspaper he has three options in his hands:
    1) Kill the journalist (by a planned accident or a non-politically motivated thief).
    2) Shut down the newspaper.
    3) Beat the hell out of the journalist so he will think twice before speaking his mind again.

    Now let’s see the three options Bush has if a American journalist calls him “an idiot” in national TV:

    1) He can’t do shit.
    2) He can’t do shit.
    3) He can’t do shit.

    So please spare me the word “propoganda” when it comes to US.

    Nobody is afraid of Russia becoming a “superpower” also because you don’t become a “superpower” by defeating Georgia, a country of mere 4 million people.

    As for the advised homework, I did some research and I was told that Russians don’t care for the people of South Ossetia. All they want is to make sure they control the pipelines that go to Western Europe.

    What do you think about this?

  • George // August 13, 2008 at 5:45 pm | Reply

    Very interesting blog Ruben
    Was there any interest of neighbour countries in the story of Kosovo like in case of Russia to restore common politics as USSR or were there stories about freely giving passports by them to some of ethnic people or division of people in Kosovo and then giving it as a reason to burn it? Also, how many peacekeepers were from neighbour countries and how many of them died before starting a internal war?

  • ruben2008 // August 13, 2008 at 7:29 pm | Reply

    Thank you George,

    It is hard to make comparisons here. Of course, Albania had very strong sentiments regarding the fate of Kosovo Albanians, but it always kept (or was kept at) a distance during the process of solving the issue.

    Would Serbia agree to have Albanian peacekeepers there? I don’t think so. Would Turkey agree to a monitoring mission if the peacekeepers in Cyprus were chosen to be from Greece?

    Similarly, having Russia guarding South Ossetia has been the wrong choice from the beginning. It is high time to change this and establlish an EU peacekeeping force there with a UN mandate plus an American and a Russian observer to make sure that something like this never happens again.

  • Vic // August 14, 2008 at 2:39 am | Reply

    Similarly, it is high time to change this and establlish an international peacekeeping force in Kosovo and Iraq with a UN mandate and under the UN leadership. NATO and US/EU are seen (by many in Serbia for example) as biased as Russia is seen (by many in Georgia) in South Ossetia. Both clearly take sides in the conflicts and this makes the two cases very similar, despite all the differences in appearance. The whole discussion in this forum is about taking sides and this is what we do the best.

  • ruben2008 // August 14, 2008 at 5:12 am | Reply

    Vic,

    UN has already been in Kosovo since 1999. Immediately, after the war NATO invited UN to run the country.

    Aware that Serbs don’t trust NATO, the peacekeeping force was international with Russian troops among many others.

    In 2003, Mr. Putin decided that Kosovo was not interesting enough and took the Russian troops away.

    Similarly in Iraq, right after the war, UN was invited to take a leading role despite the cold atmosphere in the relationship between US and some of SC veto-holding members.

    The Russian were welcomed too, but they decided to let the Coalition of the Willing to clean its own mess. Fair enough. But, you can never say that the Russians were excluded.

    It is unfortunate that a barbaric terrorist attack five years ago killed 20 people from the UN staff in Iraq and the General Secretary asked the mission to leave the country. Now they are planning a comeback.

    Despite serious past shortcomings of course you’d want an international organization like UN present in conflict zones. But, UN too needs to change and to reflect today’s situation in the world.

    And finally yes, thankfully we can take sides. It is what democracy is about. I understand that in Russia and other countries it is common to have only one side, the monarch’s (with or without a crown) but it is not the same here.

  • NotAnIdiot // August 14, 2008 at 3:34 pm | Reply

    @ruben

    “Nobody is afraid of Russia becoming a “superpower” also because you don’t become a “superpower” by defeating Georgia, a country of mere 4 million people. ”

    That statement is hilarious. Ruben2008 I suggest you read a few books.

    “However, as far as I know it is a basic principle of the peacekeeping strategy that the peacekeeper should not be a neighbor who is directly a party in that conflict.”

    The UN mandated Russia to be part of the peacekeeping force. Russia offered to allow more countries to help the peacekeeping force and the UN / EU only would not allow it.

    Russian peacekeepers were killed. Civilian casualties were in the hundreds to thousands. Do you really think if the US had soldiers protecting civilians in a border town in Mexico or Canada, and one of those governments began slaughtering our soldiers and civilians we would politely ask the UN to resolve the issue when they got around to it? Unless you believe that is what the US would do, you are a complete hypocrite.

  • ruben2008 // August 15, 2008 at 6:48 am | Reply

    Neighboring, former Soviet countries, still out of Russia’s control gather in Tbilisi to show their solidarity to Georgia.

    Click play under the image

    http://www.rferl.org/content/Rally_In_Tbilisi/1190816.html

  • 01varvara // August 15, 2008 at 10:07 am | Reply

    Sorry, your position is disnformatsiya through and through. “The Russian media is not free”. I suggest that you read Kommerant, Moskovy Vedomosti, and Nezavisimaya Gazeta, or listen to Ekho Moskovy. These are all major media outlets. Of course, you shall have to have facility in Russian to do so! Do you speak Russian? If you do not, you are repeating American propaganda!

    The above outlets have given space and air time to the Georgian government (!) since 8 August. The Georgian media marches in Soviet-style lockstep, as much of the US media does. Sorry, your theory does not match reality. Again, if you lack facility in Russian, you can’t check for yourself, and you are at the mercy of CNN.

    Dmitri Simes is opposed to the Bush/Rice provocation. The LA Times is opposed as well. Stephen Cohen of NYU is opposed. Shall I mention more? I translate from the Russian press DAILY for my website, so I may have a slight idea of the real situation.

    The butcher Saakashvili opened fire at 22.05 on 7 August, only hours after giving his word that he would not. The bombardment was not against military targets, it was against civilian residential districts, on the direct orders of Saakashvili.

    Overwhelming force? The Georgian army was thrown out of S Ossetia by a division-sized battle group, a force EQUAL in size to the Georgian forces there. The fact that the Georgian forces folded in an area where the terrain favours the defence is prima facie evidence of bad leadership, poor morale, and crappy unit cohesion. Both the London Times and Fox News have reported panic in Georgian ranks when Russian forces were nowhere about. The Russian forces have been open to the press, the Georgians are not.

    Saakashvili is hated domestically. 70% of his budget goes to the military and he does have a thuggish secret police, reputed to have CIA training, although I think that they come by their nastiness naturally, with no American help.

    In short, your submission does not stand on all fours! I run a website based on translations from the Russian media, so I MIGHT, I stress might, have a better idea of the situation. Stop repeating Ted Turner’s lies. Do some travelling abroad, and you’ll find a wonderful world quite unlike the USA, and, often enough, very nice indeed. Knowledge shall dispel some of your cobwebs.

    Ciao and good cheeer,

    Vara

  • S.D. Lukac // August 17, 2008 at 7:52 pm | Reply

    Why does no one mention that Russia has never reconciled itself to the loss of the countries it grabbed either under the tsars, or by the gracious permission of the participants of the Yalta conference?
    In South Ossetia it has long been practising salami tactics: in order to annexe it, Ossetians were lured by the promise of pensions to apply for Russian passports.
    Given the chaos until recently prevailing in Georgia and its poverty, the lure was overwhelmingly attractive.

    Russia always takes the long view and its intentions are never benevolent.

    As usual, nobody paid much attention and the decision-makers had mostly a very superficial knowledge of the history and various loyalties and traditions of the region. Once again we are seeing evidence that “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.

    As for a “Russian peace-keeping force” that is surely an oxymoron. Russian intentions are NEVER benevolent: it is a rapacious, malignant power, like a cancer on the face of the earth.

    As for Abkhazia, my great grandmother was Abkhazian, but she never considered herself anything but true Georgian. Would anyone call a Kentish man anything other than English?

  • Derek // August 18, 2008 at 1:10 pm | Reply

    “Russia always takes the long view and its intentions are never benevolent”

    You could replace Russia in that statement with any other political entity that has ever existed. Anyone who believes a government can be benevolent is living in a strange bit of fiction.

  • ruben2008 // August 19, 2008 at 4:17 pm | Reply

    #Derek,

    That’s relatively speaking. Ethics and moral exists and should exists in the international relations.

    Both Nazi Germany and United States may have acted based on their interests in the early 40s, but the consequences of their actions to the rest of the world are in stark difference.

    Governments are not humanitarian organizations but they are not equally immoral or criminal.

  • ruben2008 // August 19, 2008 at 4:34 pm | Reply

    #S.D. Lukac

    Thank you for the great post.

    I know what you mean by “salami tactics”. I have seen them elsewhere but not with this name.

    “As for Abkhazia, my great grandmother was Abkhazian, but she never considered herself anything but true Georgian. Would anyone call a Kentish man anything other than English?”

    Haha. A Kentish man is English, alright.

    Anyway, I do believe that Georgia should compete with the Russians in attracting back South Ossetians and Abkhasians.

    Invest to increase their standard of living, make it higher than in the rest of Georgia if necessary. I know it could sound like a strange variation of the story of the “prodigal son” but it is what it is.

    Maybe EU and US should not help Georgia with weapons (Russia is too strong anyway) but with extensive aid to buy the Ossetians out of the Russian control.

    This could be of course a very utopian suggestion, but while I strongly condemn the Russian aggression and reject the comparisons with Kosovo’s case, I do understand the drive of the Ossetians for a better life.

    You live only once and you will strive for a better life for you and your kids.
    I don’t believe in selling my nationality for a better pension, but I will never moralize to someone who does. His pocket, his life, his sense of honor.

  • ruben2008 // August 19, 2008 at 5:08 pm | Reply

    #Varvara,

    Russian media is not free. The three-four titles that you mentioned are token-news organization, whose existence is only the exception that proves the rule.

    Of course, Putin let them live. But it is a joke to believe that they provide the freedom of information and speech for a population of 140 million.
    Putin also organizes regularly national and local elections but we know what they are.
    Putin also has let the Russian parliament exist, but we know what its real power is.
    Putin also left his position as president and was substituted by Medvedev but we know who runs the country.

    If you are too naive to see all this that’s your problem.

    I don’t mind some intelligent propaganda in my blog, but if you think that by throwing a few names you will manage to exculpate Mr. Putin from his criminal policy towards Russia’s free speech and media, you are truly mistaken.

    You and other apologists will fail to make the world forget about Anna Politkovskaya and her dozens of similarly unfortunate colleagues who gave their life for the Russians’ right for freedom of speech.
    _____

    My parents grew up watching Russian movies and listening to Russian songs. I picked my Russian from them. I learned my Cyrillic alphabet in the same time with the Latin one. I am an avid reader of Russian literature and I hold the Russians in high esteem.

    It is precisely for this that I believe that the Russians deserve a better government and a better system. After they left behind communism it is a pity to see them succumb to a petro-state kind of regime. Mr. Putin was successful in talking to their darkest fears and doubts.

    Saying that Russians don’t enjoy freedom of speech is not showing disrespect to them. It is coming to their rescue. But apparently in the struggle between Putin and the Russian people, you Varvara have decided to serve the dictator.
    _____

    People like you are very common in America Varvara. They hate this country but still stay here.
    Why don’t you go back to Russia since it is such a wonderful country?
    Why you keep staying here when it is so beautiful “out there” and ” a wonderful world quite unlike the USA”?

    Some hypocrite you are.

  • For your information: « Darakhvelidze’s Weblog // August 20, 2008 at 11:05 am | Reply

    [...] http://ruben2008.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/comparing-south-ossetia-to-kosovo/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/12/AR2008081202480.html [...]

  • Saratov // August 20, 2008 at 2:35 pm | Reply

    @ ruben2008
    “Your Country” is far from perfect too:
    No Oppository parties, No independent Press (Controlled by Corporates), No dissidents (disappeared as unsolved crimes or suicide).
    There are 36 million people who don’t know when will have the last meal. More than 40 million uninsured. Hundred million under-insured, very good candidates to end homeless if a catastrophic health problem occurs. Not very good figures for Infantile Mortality.
    Only when America proves that capitalism can cure social ills within its own borders should it look to prove so abroad.

  • ruben2008 // August 21, 2008 at 4:58 am | Reply

    Saratov,

    Don’t be ridiculous.
    Just look what media in this country has done to George W Bush or Bill Clinton.
    It is as common to make fun of presidents here as it is to keep the photo of Putin in every non-government office in Russia.

    Of course, America is far from perfect and you will find many of the social ills that you speak off, but there must be a reason why many Russians and other nationals keep coming to this country and settle here forever.

    America becomes easily a second home to you and only miserable souls refuse to be grateful to it.

  • ruben2008 // August 21, 2008 at 4:59 am | Reply

    This blog (including comments) will not be updated until Sunday, August 25.

  • MaisEuh // August 24, 2008 at 3:56 pm | Reply

    @Ivan Smith & @Mike Nords & NotAnIdiot

    As far as I know Russia doesn’t have a UN mandate in South-Ossetia nor in Abkhazia, Russia is part of a CIS peacekeeping force. However there is a UN mission in Georgia, this mission is only in Abkhazia not in South-Ossetia and one of the goal of this mission is to observe CIS peacekeeping  ( more information available directly on UN site http://www.un.org/depts/dpko/missions/unomig/)

    If you have other information please provide a link or resolution number from the UN.

    @ ruben2008
    I clearly agree that Moscow has sent a clear message to Ukraine, Moldavia and other Caucasian republics (This is maybe less true for Baltic states, as Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are already members of EU and NATO). But the message was also for NATO and USA.

    Kosovo is to my eyes in only used by Russia to weakened western position on “Georgia territorial integrity”.Maybe US intervention in Panama in 1989 would be a better start point for a comparison than Kosovo.
    1) Safeguarding the lives of Russian citizens (vs US citizens)
    2) Defending human rights (always a good reason for TV)
    3) Pulling out Saakasvili governement (vs Noriega)
    4) Increase their control over Gas & Petrol pipeline (vs Panama canal)
    5) I do want I want in my “garden”

    Suggesting that Germany denied appliance of Georgia to avoid upsetting Russia seems to be a huge simplification, Georgia simply doesn’t fulfil NATO requirements on at least two points:
    • That they each represent a functioning democratic, political system based on a market economy.( Saakasvili has been condemn by NATO for “disproportionate use of force” against media and political opponents http://www.nato.int/docu/pr/2007/p07-114e.html )
    • that they treat minority populations in accordance with the guidelines of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE).

    “Mr. Putin was successful in talking to their darkest fears and doubts.”

    Yes I do agree, but Bush/Cheney did exactly the same thing in 2003 and 2004. Where was the US big media “freedom of speech” at that time?

    Propaganda doesn’t exist in the US…. Ok, so let’s call it deliberate misinformation or public relation! Could you remind me what was the Office of Strategic Influence for?
    Does “freedom of speech” cover Al-Jazeera’s office bombing in Baghdad and Kabul, detention during 7 years without charge of an Al Jazeera cameraman ?

    Unbiased information is very difficult to grab especially during wars or military operations… The best thing to do is to read/watch various information source!

    And as a conclusion on “freedom of speech” (a very relative concept) according to Reporters Without Borders 2007 ranking USA and Russia (Ok far behind :) ) have the worst ranking amongst G8 countries: United States (48th), Russia (144th)

    “It is precisely for this that I believe that the Russians deserve a better government and a better system.”

    Perfectly true, I just have the same wish for US citizens (and especially if you could have a foreign policy more balanced).

    If you don’t want to show disrespect to Russian people you maybe have to understand that Putin is very popular in Russia, and the word “dictator” could be an offense to them. I’m clearly not pro-Putin but the word “dictator” is simply inappropriate to qualify Putin or Medveded. Putin gave back proud and economic prosperity to Russia , ask a native Russian if he prefers Yeltin period (human rights was far better when he was ruler) or Putin period…

    “Я конечно презираю отечество мое с головы до ног, – но мне досадно, если иностранец разделяет это чувство.” Пушкин

    Anyway many thanks for your interesting blog…

  • MaisEuh // August 25, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Reply

    Are we all Georgians? Not so fast

    A beautiful article on the information “bias” in this crisis, I totality share his point of view…

    http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/25/are-we-all-georgians-not-so-fast/

  • Russia, South Ossetia, Kosovo « Sophismata // August 26, 2008 at 9:45 pm | Reply

    [...] found a very good compilation of the reasons why South Ossetia is not Kosovo, thus making Russia’s case very [...]

  • ruben2008 // August 26, 2008 at 11:13 pm | Reply

    Thank you Sophismata,

    For quoting me in your blog.

  • ruben2008 // August 28, 2008 at 5:03 am | Reply

    MaisEuh,

    Welcome to this blog.

    I cannot accept your effort to draw similarities between Putin’s policy toward the freedom of speech in Russia and the poor Office of Strategic Influence in US.

    Journalists in Russia who criticized their government have been beaten, jailed or killed, TV stations and newspapers lost their licenses and so on.

    Office of Strategic Influence was dead on arrival. People laughed at it. Journalists who went against their government in America, became rich and famous. Just look at Michael Moore. With his documentary against the war in Iraq, he became a millionaire in America.

    Any attempt to draw parallels between America and Russia, when it comes to media, is either done in bad faith or comes out of misinformation.

    “deliberate misinformation or public relation” will always exist. Political power loves to use it. However, this is a country where individuals are too powerful to be taken for a ride. A video at youtube could beat any White House sponsored propaganda.

    As for the Iraq war, it is obvious that we have again very different opinions, but let’s not distract the debate here. We will “meet” again on this.

    Cheers

  • MaisEuh // August 28, 2008 at 9:24 pm | Reply

    Ruben,

    To be fair, there was some provocations in my previous post ;)

    “I cannot accept your effort to draw similarities between Putin’s policy toward the freedom of speech in Russia and the poor Office of Strategic Influence in US.”

    “deliberate misinformation or public relation will always exist. Political power loves to use it.”

    I subscribe to your point of view :)
    The main difference is; even if there is sometimes some excess on US side (from my point of view) at the end of the day US like cats falls upon their feet… and I simply wish that Russian’s bears will one day have the same agility…

    My current understanding of “Freedom of speech” in Russia is : as long as nobody read you could say what you want, but if you are a mainstream media (especially TV) you MUST NOT criticize the government. A little bit caricatural? probably yes, there is a free press in Russia but it’s an “underground” press and Russia deserve more than that.

    I was “shocked” at the beginning of the crisis by the “bias” of westerner’s media; not only US ones, but German, Italian, French and British as well. I have spent a lot of time discussing on this with native Russians and Ukrainians ( I’m still studying Russian ) and many of them were disappointed by the coverage of our media in this crisis, they were expecting a more balanced analysis and I do agree with them.

    Thanks for your answer and for your blog…

  • ruben2008 // August 30, 2008 at 3:06 am | Reply

    MaisEuh,

    “To be fair, there was some provocations in my previous post ;)

    Please, keep your “provocations” and posts coming. I don’t mind them, but don’t mind me being testy sometime.

    I believe that the Western media would have been more cautious on Georgia’s events if they were not preceded with a number of other events like Putin’s decision to become Prime Minister etc.

    The seeds of mistrust had been sown long before South Ossetia exploded. They were masterly exploited by Georgian president who is a great communicator.

    I don’t know your Russian friends personally. I am therefore bound to doubt that they may have upset for not hearing the Russian version in Western media rather than for them being biased. Of course, I could be wrong about this one.

  • blog.kakheti.net » Blog Archive » Russion aggression about Georgia // October 30, 2008 at 12:44 pm | Reply

    [...] http://ruben2008.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/comparing-south-ossetia-to-kosovo/ [...]

  • Андрей Сенников // April 8, 2009 at 5:30 pm | Reply

    Да, такой блог однозначно надо раскручивать сильнее – что б как можно больше жителей инета о нем узнали! :)

  • Andrew // April 16, 2009 at 8:22 am | Reply

    To Mike Nords, Russia has NO UN MANDATE for its “peacekeeping” forces in South Ossetia OR Abkhazia, its only mandate was the CIS mandate (a Russian controlled organisation one might add) that did NOT allow it to use force without a UN mandate.
    Get your facts right.

  • БaйaчaБeбe // May 24, 2009 at 4:08 am | Reply

    Не совсем уловил некоторые моменты, но вообще действительно интересно :)

  • ruben2008 // May 25, 2009 at 7:29 pm | Reply

    Thank you БaйaчaБeбe,

    I certainly don’t pretend to be 100% correct. I am open to new information and suggestions.

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